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A Wandering Elf

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Depth of Dye

10/4/2018

12 Comments

 
I am really deep into a research project right now that is eating my time, so I have not had anything new to post here (though please follow my FB page where I am regularly sharing new books and archaeological finds).  I am excited about my new project have books on order and am experimenting with new-to-me techniques.  Fun times!

This doesn't, however, stop me from mulling over a ton of other things in my head, especially during my very long commutes each days.  One of those is about color in the Viking Age.  Archaeology tells us that they had a range of dye stuff to use.  We see walnut browns at Hedeby, reds that stand the test of time at Oseberg and blues pretty much everywhere (and far more than this brief list).  

One thing I often see when reenactors are looking at textiles for sale (for a new garment, that is often to represent someone with at least some amount of wealth) and ask online if that cloth is an appropriate color, is that people will respond to anything in a red, yellow, blue range (and others) with a resounding YES, even when that color might be exceptionally dilute (to the point of being pastel).  Is that color feasible with period dyes, of course!  However, would it really have been worth it to a person in period to use something as precious as madder to get only a very pale pink, or would it have made far more sense to wait until you gathered enough (or could afford enough) plant matter to produce a well-dyed garment.  

I understand that yes,  dyes will fade, but realistically, by the time that that happens, that garment would likely either 1) have been re-dyed or 2) be moved from serving as a "better" dress, to, perhaps, work wear?  I also realize that you would not be likely to wast the partly exhausted dye bath, and would opt to dye other things, but again, would you really be dying your new body garments this way?  Would it not be better instead to over dye an older item, or dye some leftover yarn for some other purpose, or perhaps over dye a naturally pigmented brown or grey wool to change the shade?  

Due to textiles degrading in the ground, I dont know that we could really prove this, but we do see a number of textiles from period that still have a very clear, well-saturated color to them, and those things make me wonder if someone long ago would have liked a soft blue garment as much someone today might.
12 Comments
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10/9/2018 02:38:05 am

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Reply
Catherine Raymond link
10/9/2018 10:29:58 pm

I know of no proof either way, but I suspect that the answer to your question would depend upon rank. A poorer man or woman in the Viking age would be delighted to wear even the palest pink, since it did require at least a touch of madder, and it wasn't the same humdrum cream, or gray, or brown available from sheep or flax without dyeing. But I doubt that a wealthy Viking man or woman would have felt the same way.

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Alfrun
10/10/2018 04:03:27 am

But see, I dont think a poor person would waste money (or have money to waste) on valuable imported madder if they could only buy a tiny bit (or perhaps if they only had a bit, they would opt to dye a smaller item). Instead would it not make more sense to go for a dye stuff that is less pricey so you can get better saturation on your cloth?

Reply
Catherine Raymond link
10/10/2018 05:49:54 am

That would depend on how difficult the really expensive dyes were to get as well as how expensive it was. Waiting a year or two to get an amount of dye that would make a dark color is one thing. Waiting a decade or more might have been another.

Reply
Álfrún
10/10/2018 07:34:26 am

Honestly, I think if it came to it that it would take a decade to get enough madder to dye something well, then your situation is such that subsistence is priority and you likely would have better things (at all times) to focus on than trying to dye cloth red. ;-)

We see a good bit of naturally pigmented cloth in period (that is undyed, or overdyed with other brown colorants, such as the walnut dye that shows up so heavily at Hedeby). You likely would not waste a bit of imported madder on already brown textiles. The white wool, I presume, would likely be in demand among those who could afford dyes, which doubles the dilemma. You would need to procure both white wool as well as enough dye stuff to color it. I think if you were pushing to try to fit in with a higher status crowd that attempting to buy something like metal work (which is more lasting) would be prioritized over pale pink cloth (which would also be more likely to get stained or discolored).

(Not arguing with you, but just following my own train of thought on this.)

Catherine Raymond link
10/10/2018 08:44:06 am

No offense taken. You are pursuing an interesting line of thought. I suspect, though, that to make more of it would require more knowledge about the economics of producing clothing, particularly obtaining dyes, in Viking times.

Your thinking reminds me of an issue I have often pondered. That is the issue of *which saturated colors* the wealthy would pursue. Costumers and reenactors also tend to make their apron dresses in any color that could be obtained with natural dyes, period (I've done so too). But all of the apron dress finds to date are either blue or brown. Can we honestly say that the Vikings did not *choose* to stick to those colors, in much the same way that only certain colors are appropriate for folk costume (such as bunads) today?

Reply
Álfrún
10/10/2018 11:44:02 am

That is also another good question, though I think I could make a viable case for a red dress based on Oseberg (which I think was an aprondress type outfit). That being said, it doesnt change the fact that most of the dresses were indeed blue or brown. Many things in nature produce brown dyes, which explains, perhaps, why that was so common (and it can be used over naturally pigmented wools to help even out the tone and make it less heathered in appearance). Woad can also be dark (and as a bonus, can readily dye linen) and grows in Scandinavia in period. Were these simply used the most because they were readily available dyes that could dye cloth darker colors?

It really blows my mind how really DARK blue these ancient textiles can still be, even the linen ones.

Reply
Catherine Raymond link
10/10/2018 10:42:24 pm

It is surprising how dark some of the dyed fabrics that have been found are.

I'm curious. Why do you think the Oseberg woman in red was wearing an apron dress? I'm aware we can't rule that possibility out, but what evidence from the find makes you think she was wearing an apron dress?

Reply
Álfrún
10/11/2018 06:52:24 am

An aprondress costume is more fitting for the period. The current method for attempting to identify what someone wore is typically due to presence of oval brooches in the grave. The problem with Oseberg is that we have an exceptionally lavish burial that has no jewelry at all save for a couple of stray beads. There is really no way that those women were laid to rest with all of that wealth, but not a single brooch (of any sort) or other jewelry. The grave was disturbed and it is likely it was robbed (possibly more than once) and jewelry makes for an easily transportable item to steal. (There was a paper written about this, and I can track down the title if you want it.)

The theories on continental costume put out in Oseberbfunnet bind iv were based on the lack of oval brooches in the grave, but given that there was no jewelry at all, I really believe that other theories on dress (including the aprondress) are equally (or even more) valid.

Reply
Catherine Raymond
10/11/2018 07:17:50 pm

I agree that the total absence of jewelry likely means the grave was robbed in antiquity, not that there never was any jewelry in the first place. But the extant evidence still shows that the grave was an outlier, different from the "apron dress" graves at Birka, for example. (Those embroidered roundels, for example, show that the lady buried there would not necessarily be content with a typical clothing ensemble. So yes, if you can remember the title of the paper I'd appreciate it, though I may have read it long ago and forgotten it.

Reply
Kristin Page link
10/30/2018 04:45:02 am

I'm aware that absence of evidence isn't evidence for absence - there may well have once been oval brooches at Oseberg, and an "apron dress" remains a possibility. That said, given the existing evidence (shaping on some of the silk scraps, the carvings on the cart, and the "tapestry" images from the Oseberg burial), I suspect a dress that was more like a man's tunic.

But back to the dyes. Spectrographic analyses of remnant dye in Iron Age and Early Medieval textiles commonly show levels of dye material consistent with that of strongly colored modern textiles. Despite the small amount of material that's been tested I suspect a preference for bright colors. Proof isn't possible at this remove but, looking at paintings from Roman times to the present, it seems to me that pastels don't become fashionable until the 18th century.

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nico blog link
5/21/2019 05:51:55 pm

thank for sharing

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